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Author Topic: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
dickholmer
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Post doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: June 21, 2015, 11:34
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since i do have my polargraph it is really hard not to spend hours in the stationery. so many pens...so many opportunitys...
I found a mixture of a pen and a brush, FABER-CASTELL PITT artist pen. So i bought three of them, new paper in DIN A2 (594x420), started my polargraph, and 12h later the wire of the servo did mess up and the drawing was garbage. second try, new paper, same pen, same picture. 15h later the pen started to get empty πŸ™‚ OH DEAR!! (edited - sn) so now third try with new pen. the interessting thing is that these pens are refillable. maybe this gives new opportunities...
maybe someone should add a feature showing how many meters the pen did draw and still have to draw πŸ™‚

so maybe after 3 days of waiting i will have a complete drawing ready 😎

cheers
thomas
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DaniK
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DaniK
Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: April 21, 2016, 13:33
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Hey Thomas!

Looking great! I actually like it, when the drawings start to faint away to one side! Makes every drawing unique!
How did your R&D turn out? What are your results?

I am currently trying to find (UV) light resistant pens ("lichtecht" in german).
So far the only "real" ones that come in many colours seem to be the Sakura Pigma and the Faber Castell Pitt Artist pens. As here in Europe the Faber Castells are much easier to get, I was wondering if you can already tell how the "brush" tip behaves during long paintings (as the other tip unfortunately doesn't come in as many different colours)? Does it flatten out quickly?

And lastly, have you seen the colour fade away from the finished pictures already? (up to now I was drawing with the Stabilo fine 88, and they start to loose their colour way to quickly after only a couple of months, hanging around in the flat)
And you mentioned, that the Faber Castells are refillable? Have you tried that already. Any idea where to get the ink separately from the pen? Could be a possibility for a custom gondola...

Daniela

dickholmer
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Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: April 22, 2016, 10:38
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Hi Dani,
sadly I did not really spend a lot of time in the past months with my polargraph. The tip of the faber castell pens did not flatten out a lot. you have a constant line thickness over the whole picture. a finished Picture with this pen is hanging since half a year on the wall and you can not really see that the color is fading. I did not really tried to refill my pens. the next thing I would like to try is using refillable blackboard pens.

Thomas

DaniK
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DaniK
Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: April 23, 2016, 15:48
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Hi Thomas,

thanks for the quick answer! no colour fading after 6 months sounds promising!
But I will do some r&d myself in the near future πŸ™‚

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restocked my supplies today....+ I have the molotow fineliner set...somewhere digged up in a drawer...the marabu fineliners also promise on the package to be "Lightresistant"...but they don't come individually...but the 12er package was just 9 euros......close to stabilo prices...
I am still a bit worried about the faber castell pens brush tip when I do my cmyk grid polygon madness....40000 penlifts per pen...we will see...and the fineliners also don't come in all colours.
The sigma microns also have coloured fineliners...but I couldn't get them anywhere in a store, just the brush tip version...so I will test the black ones for now....and the copics are way to expensive (around 7-8 euros), and I am sure the tip won't last much longer than a standard stabilo tip...

a good alternative for refilling could be calligraphy ink....I strolled through a "GerstΓ€cker" Store today and they had many different brands and colours...and some are explicitly labeled "archival ink"! As long as the pen can handle pigmented ink it could work....

Daniela

krummrey
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Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: May 10, 2016, 15:21
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Thanks for the update. Keep them coming. πŸ™‚

I've been doing large drawings with Edding 3000 pens. Turns out the colored ones fade in the sun after a few days (outdoors in the sun).

EATYone
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Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: May 11, 2016, 16:52
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http://www.muji.eu/pages/online.asp?Sec=13&Sub=52

those are really cool!

DaniK
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DaniK
Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: June 3, 2016, 19:06
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colour fading of stabilos (unfortunately I didn't scan the images after drawing...but the one in storage looks pretty close to the others I just drew with them):

Image

I think my scanner also does "some" funky colour correction...but not much...in general Stabilos fade quickly (whereas black and yellow seem the lightfastest)

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: June 3, 2016, 22:34
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These are some very excellent tests DaniK, thank you!

DaniK
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DaniK
Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: June 5, 2016, 10:58
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you are welcome 😎 (some longterm exposure test of the different pen-brands will also come up...but in a long time from now πŸ˜‰

BUT I think I found my magic very satisfying solution for now!:
I love the Faber Castell PITT Artist pens! Right out of the box they also last very long and they claim to be very lightfast also. Although Faber Castell sells them as a non-refillable item, they are:
http://rodmckie.blogspot.co.at/2008/07/making-faber-brush-pen-last-longer.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKNMZmlM39M

I couldn't get the Daler Rowney Ink Bob is refering to and instead bought the "Aero Color professional" acrylic ink of the German company "Schmincke". That very lightfast ink is initally made for air-brushing but can be used with pens down to a 0.15mm tip! And they offer the ink in the Basic CMY colours!!!! And also in silver, gold, bronze etc...(might be interesting for DaveO ?) They also sell empty pens for loading the ink. But if you get a close enough colour from the Faber Castells they adapt to the new ink quite quickly...and an additional bonus of the Faber Castell brush pen tip is, that you can flip the tip and therefore double the usage time!
http://www.aerocolor.de/produkte.html

One 28ml Pipette bottle is about 6 Euros...and you can barely see the 28 drops I already put in my pens missing from it....

Both say in their explanations that you should only refill them with about 3 drops....that's not my experience. (with 3 drops of the "AERO Colour Ink" you are not even nearing the initial ink load of the pen...) The pad inside can hold way more ink until it is saturated. Although I have to refill them in several rounds as the ink needs to sink down so that the end of the pad can hold more. My current refill is at 4 rounds with 5 drops each and a resting period with the pen upside down for 15 minutes in between) As soon as I know the max capacity I'll let you all know. (But you shouldn't miss the inside of the ink-pad (it is wrapped with some plastic) as the ink will run along the casing and leak at the tip then...)

D
Image

the image that inspired the artwork is from here (based on a photograph from Dr. Oliver Niehuis, ZFMK, Bonn):
http://www.wired.com/2014/11/when-did-insects-evolve

DaniK
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DaniK
Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: June 27, 2016, 15:22
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My final "unmessy" refill conclusion: max 40 drops....of the the "Schmincke Aero Color professional" acrylic ink of 28ml Pipette-bottle fit into one VERY dried out Faber Castell PITT Artist pen.
I am just not satisfied with the "BASIS Cyan" Colour yet - seems to be too dark....fiddling around now with the "Cobalt blue" instead....updates soon.

EATYone
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Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: June 28, 2016, 17:32
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Really thanks for this study πŸ™‚

DaniK
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DaniK
Post Re: doing R&D for the pen industrie?
on: July 23, 2016, 10:23
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Stabilo colour fading longterm study update:

Image

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