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Author Topic: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
Kelticfox
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Post Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 23, 2013, 14:53
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As I'll be ordering a PolargraphSD as soon as Sonny opens the cart again I thought I better get on and build the drawing table.

What angle (from the vertical) are people finding works best?

I was thinking of using MDF as my surface as that gives a nice drawing surface (especially with isograph pens - Has anyone tested with isographs yet btw?). What's the buffer area needed around the page if I aim to be able up to A1 size? Also what's the length of the arms for the steppers to attach to?

I'm willing to do the testing and design for a standable drawing surface which should make it easier for Sandy to standardise to. Especially as I have access to a huge woodworking workshop at Uni with CNC, Laser Cutters, 3D Printers etc.

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 23, 2013, 16:11
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My approach is extremely lazy - I just leaned the bit of wood up against the wall so that it was stable (ie not about to fall over) and that was the angle I used.

Recently I built a demo machine around an IKEA easel:

Image

But it will not stretch to A1. As a test, you could have a look at my new frequently asked questions page and see if that helps any - I have added a little blurb to it about angles, but perhaps it does not answer your question, or should be pulled out more obviously. I am going to add an index of Qs to the top of that page one day too.

Surface-wise, I would go for plywood rather than MDF because it is stiffer - it will not bow in the same way as MDF does. Depending on size and thickness that might not be a problem for you though. And I would always put a layer of something smooth on it that has a little bit of "give", some padding. My original machine has a large sheet of smooth card stuck to it (shirt board, it gets called). My easel machine has a big section of a thing called a desk protector. Again, bought from IKEA, it's just a clear rubber mat, with a texture. Use the smooth side - perfect. It's also got a bit of grip, or "tack" to it that holds a page fairly well.

My reason is to allow the pen tip to press into the paper a little more (whether it actually does or not), and also to make it more quiet with hard-tipped pens. It also makes for a sacrificial surface that can be replaced once you've scribbled all over it by accident.

sn

Kelticfox
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Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 23, 2013, 16:31
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I thought of using MDF because you can get it in many thickness (like ply) and doesn't have a grain (unlike plywood). If I bought MDF or plywood I would still have it cut to size at my timber merchants.... they're very good and we have excellent relationship with them. They'll even deliver for free! Though I could stick a large piece of mountboard on plywood I suppose.

I would still have to buy a 8'x4' sheet and it would cost either £11 or £16 for the whole sheet, cut to size and delivered.

Maybe I should have been clear about the A1.... The paper needs to be A1, not the drawings. Though typically I actually use A2 paper for my drawings (as I commute to Uni, A2 portfolio case is simpler to carry!). 1:50 scale drawings will normally fit on A2 drawings without an issue, even if I have to 'tile' it.

kongorilla
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kongorilla
Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 23, 2013, 23:46
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Kelticfox, regarding angle of the board - I use different angles for different pens. For pens like Pigma Microns and Sharpies, my board is only slightly off vertical. I tilt the board quite a bit (I've gone close to 45 degrees) for ballpoints because they need more pressure on their tips to ensure a constant ink flow. A soft backing on the board, like Sandy mentions above, helps ballpoints work better, too.

The board I've been using is a 2-sided melamine panel. It works great, but man, it's heavy. I've been considering moving to a bigger board, and I would use something lighter next time. Perhaps a cheap IKEA table top? (nice and light, but possibly too resonant?). A piece of good plywood is probably the best choice, or an artist's drawing board if the price isn't an issue.

Kelticfox
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Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 24, 2013, 16:16
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I have an A2 drawing board anyway for doing orthographic drawings. I plan on using sharpies and fineliners so it sounds like angle isn't really an issue due to them being felts I suppose.

Out of curiosity, what happens if you apply weight to the gondola so you can use ballpoints in a more vertical position? I suppose I could make an adjustable table and then just figure out the best angles on the pen type.

kongorilla
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kongorilla
Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 25, 2013, 07:45
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Adding weight to the gondola doesn't do much for increasing pen pressure if the drawing surface is only slightly off vertical (it's good for keeping the cords tight, though). Some gondolas that are designed for drawing on walls/windows have the weights attached to longish posts (perpendicular to the drawing surface) to increase their off-vertical angle, helping to push the gondola toward the surface. Sandy has a better memory for old designs, maybe he can provide a link to what I'm talking about.

I've never liked the idea of moving the weight in that direction, though, fearing it would increase the tendency for the pen tip to wobble. That's an untested presumption on my part, I admit.

Kelticfox
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Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 25, 2013, 11:15
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I never thought about recessing the motors to improve the pen contact. I assumed that the angle was used to improve contact. With felts though this shouldn't be an issue. Isograph pens require very little force to work.

I suppose I need as much accuracy as possible, even if that means a slow drawing (takes about 8-9 hours to do one by hand barring any mistakes). I was thinking of maybe adding some small ball bearing to the gondola to offset it slightly as isograph ink smears until it's dried (about a second). If a gondola touches the ink it will drag it across the page.

Obviously I cannot have any wobble, so maybe I should look at the weighted gondola idea like you said.

Kelticfox
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Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 28, 2013, 22:18
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As you're coming down to London, any chance you can build 1 and drop it off on the way past? I'm only down by Milton Keynes 😛

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 28, 2013, 23:11
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Ha, I'll throw it out the train doors on the way past! I'm really sorry for the holdup, one thing is just failing to lead to another, and I've got much more work on at the moment than I expected. The screen and SD card working bodes well however.

sn

Kelticfox
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Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 29, 2013, 11:52
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Ah that sucks..... I would have invited you to a BBQ or something...

...and everyone knows my BBQ's are the stuff of legends.

Kelticfox
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Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 29, 2013, 21:50
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BTW, the whiteboards look nicer then the other ones. And I see you didn't drop the 3rd motor connector just changed the connector.

Nice work!

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: September 30, 2013, 00:26
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I was going off the white PCBs because they go a bit brown in places where they get overheated during soldering (which is always), but the black ones need to be absolutely immaculately clean to look decent. Could always try yellow, or fall back on old faithful blue, or red like the very first polarshields.

Connectors are still in a state of flux - the big green sockets are right angle versions of the 3.5mm pitch pluggable screw terminals that I supply with the vitamin kits (screw terminals because that kit doesn't come with cables), and the white connectors are standard 2.54mm pitch ones with a polarising, and friction lock tab. The improvement here is that previously these two sets of connectors would overlap, so it wouldn't be possible to have both mounted at once - you had to choose. There will still be a collision if the standard upright screw terminals are mounted there, but these 90 degree ones are ok - actually pretty neat.

Thank you for the bbq offer - another trip maybe!

sn

Kelticfox
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Posts: 18
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Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: October 1, 2013, 20:25
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So when can I get one ordered?

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: October 1, 2013, 21:47
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Have no fear, I'll let you know 🙂

Kelticfox
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Posts: 18
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Post Re: Okay, lets start from the beginning...
on: October 12, 2013, 18:08
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Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd ordered!

Should arrive just before my birthday as well! Happy birthday me!

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