Forum

Welcome Guest 

Show/Hide Header

Welcome Guest, posting in this forum requires registration.





Pages: [1]
Author Topic: First try in B&W, rendering too dense and dark
DenisM
Newbie
Posts: 18
Permalink
DenisM
Post First try in B&W, rendering too dense and dark
on: February 23, 2015, 07:31
Quote

Hi all,
First of all as we have exchange tons of emails : Sandy your work is amazing, thanks for your support!

Here is my first real try with a 14h rendering.
I think I found the right couple pen/paper. ( check done)

I have make a lot of tests for pen setting and scale and was a little bit frustrated as the final rendering is for me too dense and missing details, on Lauren eyes particularly. Too bad Lauren, really sorry 😯
The hair are also missing details.
I try with the pencil seting to move as far I can to a grey white space. It was fine on the sample test but not on the final rendering. I took the 0.4 to 2.6 with step 0.2.

I am going to try with a grey pencil to reduce sharp contrast or another setting. By the way I do not know how to manage Lauren eyes details

Any advice or comments?

Image
Image
Image

sandy
Administrator
Posts: 1317
Permalink
sandy
Post Re: First try in B&W, rendering too dense and dark
on: February 23, 2015, 22:57
Quote

Hey great stuff. There's a couple of things I can see here. Maybe useful, maybe not.

1. Blurred image. This is where sample area might be set quite high in relation to the size of the grid. When sample area is 1, then the density of the shaded patch is controlled by the colour of one single bitmap pixel in the centre of the patch. This often leads to very contrasty, chequerboard kinds of patterns, so increase sample area a little. Increasing this means the sample area is increased, and the density of the pixel ends up as an average of a larger area - naturally you'll lose sharp detail.

2 & 3. Pen size and grid size. Our old adversaries. You have a fairly small grid size, with a fairly large, and bleedy pen. Looking at the pen width test, the most dense pixel is the one where the pen is set to 0.4mm, and that has only got 8 waves in it. So with that sized pen and grid, there's really only 7 different densities that can be expressed.

With the pensize set to 0.8, it'll be even fewer than 8 densities, and I guess the bleedy pen might not help.

4. Gaps between your rows. Either you've got pixel scaling turned down a little, or you can pull your pen in a bit until just the very tip is extended out from the gondola, and the stabiliser is almost flat against the page. When the pen sticks out, pulling on the cords tends to move the gondola, but not necessarily the pen tip. That might hel with the bleed too, since the tip will not stay still for as long.

Some solutions:
Edit your image so the shadows are brightened. Use the curves tool to keep the black black, but the shadows are much closer to the midtones. Careful, a simple brightness adjustment will blow out the highlights. Notice the back of the hand has already been blown out - this is just because of the low range of the gridsize+pensize combination.

Use a smaller pen, or even set your pen tip to a smaller setting. The pen width test let you know that only when the pen was set to 0.4 was the pixel entirely coloured in. Reducing the pen size from 0.8 (I think I read right that's what you were using). That said, on the drawing, the darkest pixels look pretty dark to me - maybe I misunderstood what you did.

Remember you can select small panels to draw rather than the whole thing. I usually select specific features I want to make sure get expressed, and draw and redraw just that little sub-panel until I get the settings dialled in just right.

Looking pretty good though - but you do have some pretty fine material to work with.

sn

kongorilla
Pro
Posts: 362
Permalink
kongorilla
Post Re: First try in B&W, rendering too dense and dark
on: February 23, 2015, 23:09
Quote

Hi Denis - the drawing looks good. Some things I'm seeing:

There are white borders around each pixel, as if you set PIXEL SCALING to something less than 1. If that's true, put the value back to 1.

I think the light/dark values look about right. If a black area in your bitmap is rendered black without overlapping strokes, or with just *hints* of paper between strokes, you've chosen a good pen size. If the strokes are overlapping, use a slightly larger pen size value.

The overall drawing appears blurry, as if you set SAMPLE AREA too high. Keep the sampling area to a value very near or equal to the grid size for now.

If you need more detail, you can set the GRID SIZE smaller, with perhaps a sharper (lower) sample area setting (with sharper settings you run the risk of vampire teeth and irises looking in odd directions). You can also render the drawing larger with the same grid size.

Hope that's helpful!

kongorilla
Pro
Posts: 362
Permalink
kongorilla
Post Re: First try in B&W, rendering too dense and dark
on: February 23, 2015, 23:10
Quote

Ha! Sandy beat me again.

DenisM
Newbie
Posts: 18
Permalink
DenisM
Post Re: First try in B&W, rendering too dense and dark
on: February 24, 2015, 17:16
Quote

Hi Sandy and Kong, many thanks for your support and feedbacks

@sandy

    on 2 and 3, i do not clearly understand how it works and "the most dense pixel is the one where the pen is set to 0.4mm, and that has only got 8 waves" My seeting were 0.4 to 2.6 with 0.2 Step and penwidth 0.8, does it means that it will be a series like :
    0.4 - > 8 waves
    0.6 -> 7 waves
    0.8 -> 6 waves ..... I'm correct ?
    I am going to test the curves tool, as never use it
    Thanks for the small panels selections tips, it will save many times, pen and paper. I do not think about that

@ Kong

    I have made a test last night with lower (perpas too low) SAMPLE AREA and GRID SIZE. the results is more sharp and clear on the eyes but the hands are not well. Sorry Lauren again 🙂

Here is my last try. I will work on smaller part my objective is too manage a 2 colors rendering (light Gray + dark gray)

Many thanks, i will keep this post upadted
Denis

Image

sandy
Administrator
Posts: 1317
Permalink
sandy
Post Re: First try in B&W, rendering too dense and dark
on: February 24, 2015, 23:54
Quote

The pen width test draws a series of solid pixels, maximum density, but changes the pen size for each pixel. It ignores your current actual pen size entirely. The purpose of it is to help you decide what you want your darkest pixel to look like. A side-effect is that it measures the width of the line that your pen produces.

You started with pen size 0.4, then went to 0.6, then 0.8, 1.0, 1.2, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.4, 2.6.

So the first pixel is filled in with the pen tip size set to 0.4mm. With that sized pen, it looks like you can fit in about 8 waves, so it draws 8 waves (maximum density for that thickness of line).

The second pixel is 0.4+0.2=0.6. With a pen this size, you can't fit in as many waves, so maximum density only draws about 5 or 6 waves So 6 is the maximum density for that thickness of line.

The third pixel is 0.6+0.2=0.8, and with this sized pen, the machine has calculated that you can only fit four waves in before the pixel is full, so it draws four waves.

From your pen width tests, it looks to me that your actual pen width is between 0.4 and 0.6mm. There are still some slight gaps in the ink on the 0.6mm pixel, but the ink is also a bit bleedy in the paper so it's tricky to tell. Also worth mentioning that many pens (I'm looking at you, Sharpie) increase in tip size over their lifetimes, as they get worn.

Last point: This is defiantly a low resolution output device. To capture lots of spatial data, you need to draw giant, or use tiny pens, or enjoy the artefacts and limitations that come out of the process. Aggressively cropping images is also an interesting path to take.

sn

DenisM
Newbie
Posts: 18
Permalink
DenisM
Post Re: First try in B&W, rendering too dense and dark
on: February 25, 2015, 08:51
Quote

Many thanks for your clear answer Sandy.
Really appreciate

Denis

Pages: [1]
Mingle Forum by cartpauj
Version: 1.0.34 ; Page loaded in: 0.025 seconds.