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Author Topic: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
ryan13mt
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Post Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: May 29, 2013, 19:15
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So hello everyone im Ryan from a little island called Malta. So here we have a problem, PARTS. There are no shops here that sell electronic components for the arduino so we have to order everything from ebay. So ive made some orders today for some parts to build my polargraph. I think this will be a part of my thesis(I study creative computing with the university of London external program and we use processing as one of our main programs). So here is what i ordered, please note i ordered some stuff in bulk because im also trying to do a 3d printer of some sort.

Arduino uno R3: already have it.

5x nema17 for 47 pounds inc shipping which i think is pretty good. These are rated at 0.4amps : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121051250999?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

3x l293d motor shield for less than 15 pounds. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370817070141?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2648

So the parts im missing i guess are the power supply, the beaded chord and the pulleys. Now the gondola i was gonna try and do it the diy method, i have loads of bearing running around that can be put to good use.

So the main question is, Can you guys suggest a suitable cheap power supply with maybe a link from ebay? And will this connect to the arduino or to the motor shields? Also would 10m of the beaded chord be enough? Im gonna try and stick the polargraph the wall of my room, maybe draw some sort of mural apart from the usual paper drawings.

Some help would be greatly appreciated 🙂

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: May 29, 2013, 23:52
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Hi Ryan, welcome to the forum 🙂

The stuff you've got/ordered looks good. (As an aside, you mention the multiples for a 3d printer - using multiple L293D shields in a concerted way won't be easy I think - if you haven't already, have a look at http://store.amberspyglass.co.uk/buildlog-net-stepper-shield-complete-kit.html which is a very nice little shield designed to run GRBL (G-code interpreter) for things like the shapeoko. For polargraph it is overkill, but great for a little CNC kit.)

The PSUs I use are pretty much these ones:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/CostMad-Universal-Universally-Voltage-Replacement/dp/B004YBLD1G

but there's plenty on ebay that are pretty similar - Ex-Pro is a popular brand:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ex-Pro-Worldwide-Variable-Voltage-AC-DC-Power-Plug-27w-Regulated-3v-12v-2250mA-/370823607471?pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_PowerAdaptors_SM&hash=item5656cf34af

I like something with variable voltage because there's no other way of adjusting the power with the adafruit shield. I usually run a motorshield at 6v or 7.5v. You have slightly lower current motors so you can probably go a bit higher, but it's nice to be able to tune it. Plenty of people just bung a 9v (or more) supply on though, so it's not essential by any means. Most of this is covered in the Polargraph instructable actually.

The drivers on the shield can draw 600mA each, so a power supply that is capable of supplying 1200mA would be ideal, but I never had any problems with a 1000mA supply.

The motorshield has a jumper on it that unites the motor power circuits with the logic power circuits. So if the jumper is there, you can plug the PSU into the main power socket on the arduino and it will supply the motors too. Not recommended by Adafruit necessarily, but I've never had any problems with that arrangement.

The more conventional setup is to remove the jumper, and wire the PSU into the EXT_PWR terminals on the motorshield. That powers the motors, and let the +5v from the USB connection power the logic.

Re amount of cord - For each side, you need enough to stretch from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner, plus a bit extra to hang down the side. Doing very large drawings you are more likely to run into problems with the counterweight drop, or the lines sagging under their own weight on long stretches.

sn

ryan13mt
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Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: May 31, 2013, 13:09
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Well i was thinking the biggest i would go was about A0 size paper. Have you gotten the pulleys printed yet Sandy? Just as a note, Wouldnt more weight to the gondola fix the sagging on the lines?

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: May 31, 2013, 15:26
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The machine you make needs to be about 20-40% bigger than the biggest drawing you want to make, because you need a decent margin around the page. So a A0 page will need a surface about 1100x1500mm, which has a diagonal of around 1800mm. 4m of cord will probably do you because it doesn't actually need to reach to the very bottom edge of the surface, but 5 would give you a bit of extra room.

Remember that regardless of whether the machine is landscape or portrait there needs to be at least 1800mm drop from the motors to the floor, for the counterweights. That's fairly tall.

All the pulleys are spoken for, but I'll be making more.

More weight on the gondola will indeed help sagging lines. I sometimes tape a little bag of change to the gondola when I'm doing very fine work, particularly on rough paper. A few judicially placed weights (small change) can work wonders for sharpness when you've got a pen and a surface fine enough to express it, but there is a corresponding increase in load on the motors, power used, heat etc. Not to mention more likely to pull the brackets off the wall, ha! Usually not an issue, but something to be aware of.

sn

ryan13mt
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Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: May 31, 2013, 15:30
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Can you give me an idea when more pulleys(sprockets?) will be ready? Was going to try and set the machine up next week if everything arrives on time.

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: May 31, 2013, 17:07
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Some stuff like the sprockets I usually print on demand unless I've got nothing else to do. My little 3d printer is busy printing parts for my new big 3d printer at the moment, so unless there's a reason to stop it (ie a customer shouting at me), it will not be diverted from that.

sn

kongorilla
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kongorilla
Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: May 31, 2013, 20:28
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Ryan, the original polargraph sprockets are available on Shapeways, assuming shipping to Malta isn't an issue. I would expect it to take more than a week to get to you, but it's another option.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/330572/2x-wide-polargraph-sprockets-5mm-axle.html

ryan13mt
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Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: May 31, 2013, 21:51
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Ahh ok then didnt know they were available elsewhere.

ryan13mt
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Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: June 1, 2013, 17:34
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Ok so if im going to stick this machine to the wall, i read i should make it a bit slanting so that the pen has atleast some gravitation pressure working on it. If i stick a 1 inch wooden frame than attach to it a smooth surface like formica sheet, do you think i can make it vertical and attack the motors on the wall? Or should i make the frame a little bit slanting and attach the motors to the frame? Reason im asking is due to the need to draw A0 paper i will need a huge surface. If i can just make the frame for the drawing part instead of the whole machine that would decrease the costs by a lot. I was thinking i'd attach the motors 2m apart and 2m off the floor. And the drawing space would be 1.25 by 1.25 metres so if i need to put the paper vertical i wont have a problem. What do you guys think then? Stick motors on wall and put the drawing space a bit slanting on its own or a whole machine frame?

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: June 1, 2013, 18:46
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Sounds like a good plan Ryan. Ideally, there's a bit of a slant, but you can get away with it on a flat surface. It depends a bit on your pen and your surface. You'll need to be a bit more careful about balancing the gondola, and be prepared for a little bit of skitteryness. There's less weight on the pen tip, but then there's also less friction.

I've done it on windows and on walls, and in both cases I have just stuck the motor bracket directly to the surface with sticky pads (command strip type stuff) and not worried about the slant. I have just been looking at a pic from another polargraph pioneer of a 2.2m tall machine, and that's just with the motor mounts screwed to a piece of timber attached at the top of the wall, and came out pretty nice.

sn

ryan13mt
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Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: June 8, 2013, 10:51
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So guys i have a dilemma. Due to this being a big spec machine i need some information on the drawing board. I already have a piece of board that is 1.2mX2m that i can cut. Now i think i will cut it 1.2mX1.2m so it will be a square. Now the biggest drawing will be of A0 size(841mmX1189mm). Now the problem is here. The motors will be stuck on the wall and not on the machine as i dont have a big piece of wood for that. So the space between the motors and the drawing area will be void. Here is a picture so maybe youll understand it better.

Image

Now do you think this will create a problem? Any suggestions? The motors can be put further apart and higher if need be.

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: June 8, 2013, 16:51
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Hey I think that looks great. I can't see there being a problem with the gap between the surface and the motors. If the surface is thick enough, then the depth of it will help pull the pen against it too - equivalent to having a sloped surface. Unless you need to (for aesthetics), I wouldn't bother cutting the surface down - the bigger it is, the less chance you've got of ending up scribbling all over your walls, and the more safe margin you have.

sn

ryan13mt
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Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: June 11, 2013, 13:40
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So items arrived today. Theyre exactly as described and youv thrown in the slim pen holder aswell which i didnt know you did :D. The machine should be setup by this weekend.

sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: June 11, 2013, 22:15
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Cool stuff, that was quick. Yep the pen gripper thing is good. Let us know how you get on!

ryan13mt
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Posts: 16
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Post Re: Beginner trying to find the cheapest way round.
on: September 26, 2013, 00:02
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So the machine was finished but never properly did a full size drawing. Here is a link to a video i made. Hope you enjoy it guys 😀

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