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Author Topic: Pen tests
lanthan
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Post Pen tests
on: February 11, 2012, 14:48
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A thread with pictures of pen tests might be useful for newcomers and pen selection, so here are some gel pen tests.

Pilot G2 Medium:
[img]
pilot_g2_medium

Pilot G1 (red) and Stabilo Pointvisco fine 0.5 (purple)

[img]
pilot_g1_stabilo_pointvisco

So far, advantage to "Stabilo PointVisco fine 0.5". Inking is more homogeneous overall, and ink color is vivid.
kongorilla
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kongorilla
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 16, 2012, 07:22
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Before I reveal my favorite pen & paper combo, here are some things to consider when discussing polargraph supplies:

PENS:
Longevity - Does the pen have enough ink to get through a large drawing?
Consistency - Does it draw a clean line without skipping?
Opacity - Is the ink opaque or translucent?
Tip Strength - Is the tip strong enough to keep its shape over the course of a long drawing, or does its width double by the end?
Ink Dry Time - Does the ink dry fast enough so the gondola won't smear it?
Appearance - Is the line attractive? Is the ink a rich black, warm black, cool black, etc. Is the line clean, or is it ragged (which can be cool, too).

PAPER
Absorbency - Will the ink sit on the surface, or will the paper suck a new pen dry before your drawing is done? Will ink puddle and smear on it?
Tooth/Abrasiveness - Is the surface right to take the ink well, without wearing your fiber tipped pen down to a nub?
Appearance - Attractive paper suitable for framing?

In my experience, a pen that seems worthless on one paper can be fantastic on another, or draws completely differently if the paper has some kind of cushion behind it (like a few layers of paper, for example).

Then there's the gondola speed that works best with a particular combo. And the angle of the board. And the weight on the gondola.

So many factors to consider....that's what makes this so much fun.
sandy
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Posts: 1317
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sandy
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 16, 2012, 08:17
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I would add
Archivability - Will the ink fade or the paper go yellow. Archival ink needs to be pigment-based rather than dye-based, and paper should be acid-free. There is a certain fetishism for "archival" products which will usually cost quadruple the non-archival alternative, and it's very hard to get good, vibrant, deep colours with pigmented inks.

I also never worried about the tip getting fatter when drawing bitmaps, because it happened so gradually that the fat line and the thin line were were at opposite ends of the drawing. But now, with vector stuff (and especially TSP), it's very likely that the two kinds of lines would end up side-by-side.
kongorilla
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kongorilla
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 16, 2012, 08:27
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KONGORILLA'S FAVORITE COMBO (so far)

Well, not 'favorite' in the sense of 'best looking', but rather in the sense that it has never failed me (no skipping, no smearing, pen never runs out, etc).

Tango Advantage Digital & Sharpie Ultra Fine

Paper:Tango Advantage Digital 10pt C1S
Pen: Sharpie Ultra Fine
Unfortunately, the paper doesn't have a 'fine art' looking surface. It's a smooth, coated stock (C1S means "coated 1 side"), so it has a semi-gloss appearance. The coating is just right for taking the Sharpie ink, though,and the Sharpies seem to last forever on it. One con: if the surface of the paper gets marked with a fingerprint or pencil mark, there's no saving it. Erasing polishes the coating, and that area will always stand out. Live with the mark, or toss the paper.

I don't think I need to describe the pen, everyone has used a Sharpie Ultra Fine, right?. On this paper the ink is very dark, but after drying for a long time might become a cool black, which I don't find as attractive as warm blacks.

If you're making something for a museum, find a fancier pen & paper combo. But if you want a rock-solid pairing for making posters and casual frame-ables, look no further. You won't find the paper in art stores, you have to go to a paper dealer that sells to print shops (possibly only sold in the U.S.?). I got mine at a California paper chain, Kelly Paper. A big shout-out to the guy who works at my local store; I described what I was looking for and he got it perfectly, first try. I was charged 33 cents per 19"x25" sheet.
kongorilla
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kongorilla
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 16, 2012, 08:48
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@Sandy, regarding tips getting fatter:
With some combinations, I was having trouble dialing in a good pen width because a width for making near black pixels at the top resulted in waaay too dark pixels at the bottom. For example, thinking that Yupo would be the ideal polargraph paper, I was shocked to discover that it wore down a pigma (or maybe it was a zig) pen like a fine sandpaper. The bottom pixels were all smeary black puddles.

I don't want to give up on Yupo, though, 'cuz it's nice stuff. Maybe if I use less weight on the gondola and a more vertical board....
sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 16, 2012, 09:24
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I know what you mean about a fat bottom, as it were, ha ha. Part of he problem is that the pixels get so compressed the further down you go, so they _are_ denser. They close like a venetian blind.
One thing I've been holding off doing (because it's hard to balance with the current simple way of doing things) is implementing _perceptual_ density rendering. At the moment there's a linear relationship between number of waves and density/brightness, the result of this is dark detail gets compressed because our eyes struggle to pick up differences between the darkest pixels - it all merges into one area.
So I've had this on my list for a while, but was never sure if it was really an issue with such low dynamic range anyway. But another reason to do it is that issue where pixels on different areas of the page get stretched and their density increased - this could be modified so the number of waves is dependant on the density/brightness setting AND the position on the board.

Thanks for sharing your findings Kongorilla, I'm yet to find a paper that has the fine art look (watercolour paper) that is practical to use with pens, especially something as volatile as markers.

sn
kongorilla
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kongorilla
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 17, 2012, 20:32
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I've played around with ballpoint pens a lot. They have many advantages.

  • They don't lose their point.
  • They don't dry out (relatively speaking).
  • Their ink won't soak into the paper if left in one spot for a long time.
  • They last a long time.
  • In many pens you can easily see how much ink is left.
  • People recognize that it's a ballpoint pen drawing and enjoy that.
  • They are cheap.

Disadvantages:

  • They tend to skip, usually at the most important section of the drawing, 5 hours into a render.
  • Their metal point can be more noisy to draw with (if you add extra weight to your gondola to combat %$#* skipping!)
  • Drawings tend to be faint (may require multiple passes).
  • Some humorless people don't appreciate ballpoint pen art, but I don't hang around that sort.

Here's a small example drawn on printer paper. The pen is your common BIC pen (which I've just learned is the "Cristal"). To fight skipping I had my board's angle very far off vertical, and I had a cushion of 4 sheets of paper under the drawing. It was done in two passes using the default square wave, the second pass rotated 180 degrees from the first. The pen size was .25, but maybe should've been .3. Grid size 30.
Polargraph Don
Fun bonus: You can give the pen away with the drawing, and show the recipient how much ink all those hours of scribbling used up.
sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 17, 2012, 21:00
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This is really excellent, brilliant effect, love the interference patterns!
kongorilla
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Posts: 362
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kongorilla
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 23, 2012, 09:22
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MORE BALLPOINT NONSENSE

Still working with a BIC Cristal (same pen, btw, which has drawn many hours of polargraph doodles). This time I tried it on Canson XL Recycled Series Bristol paper.

I bought a pad of this paper in a pinch right before Christmas (it was all my local art store had in large format bristol, and I wanted to give some polargraph drawings as gifts), despite being prejudiced against recycled art papers (they tend to have a surface and absorbancy that isn't good for the inking I do on bristol).

As it turned out, yes, the paper stank when paired with the type of pens I wanted to use (pigmas, zigs, sharpies). The paper was too absorbent. Between sucking pens dry and getting blobs whenever the gondola paused, I thought it was a total loss.

Fast forward a few months. "Hey, maybe that crappy, expensive bristol will work with ballpoint pen." Here are the results:

The paper has a smooth side and a rough. Here's the smooth.
Image
Image

And the rough side.
Image
Image

On the plus side, the paper took the ink well, especially the smooth side. The obvious negative aspect is the pen skipped on both tests, and the test is a very small drawing. This same pen has done a very large, 8.5 hour drawing on cheap paper without a skip, so I don't know what's up with the Canson stuff.

My conclusion: I'm still looking for something to do with the Canson.
sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 23, 2012, 13:34
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What kind of slope do you put your board to for these ballpoint drawings? I've never managed to get a convincing line out of a biro.

When you say it skipped - do you mean the gaps in the drawing - or that the pen comes off the page while drawing? What causes it?

sn
kongorilla
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kongorilla
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 23, 2012, 19:10
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Slope is ~30° off vertical.

"Skipped" = ink stops flowing, then restarts (or, with cursing, is forced to restart).

I wish I could talk to a ballpoint pen engineer to find out what causes it. I've always imagined that the little ball stops turning. I've also assumed that more friction on the point is good to combat skipping. What confuses me is the fact that on the Canson paper the ink goes from flowing well to not at all. On the papers that work better with the ballpoint, the ink is more faint but doesn't skip, which seems counter intuitive. Perhaps there's a clogging or buildup that's causing the problems with the Canson bristol.
sandy
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sandy
Post Re: Pen tests
on: February 23, 2012, 22:04
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Ok, that's great. Yes I would have expected the rough surface to have more grip to move the ball, but I guess it's like slick tyres, maximum surface contact = better grip.

I never really believed that ballpoint ink was thick enough to require gravity to work down the barrel (just magic, surely), but could it be that? That's why NASA made those space pens after all. For polargraph machines, I mean, ha!

A dustier surface would make a difference to keeping the ink flowing, could be that.

Good to know kong, thanks for the update too.

sn
vdrome
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Posts: 36
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Post Re: Pen tests
on: July 21, 2014, 15:32
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Just to bump this. I've had really nice results with ballpoint pens thus far, especially on "frosted" Mylar paper which has very subtle tooth.

Are there any other particular brands of ballpoints besides Cristal that you recommend? The one I've been using has a finer ball-point than the standard BIC style biro. I'll double check the brand soon.
kongorilla
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kongorilla
Post Re: Pen tests
on: July 21, 2014, 21:21
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IIRC, Paper Mate InkJoy pens had a good flow, and were cheap (it's been a while since I used them). I think there was the occasional problem of blobbing, when a ball of ink would build up above the point and then be released when it was big enough.
http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Mate-Retractable-Ballpoint-1781564/dp/B004U9TEEA

This was done with them, and a few years in a sunny room doesn't seem to have faded it much:
Image

Not ballpoints, strictly speaking, but I've bought a handful of Pentel EnerGel refills for ~$1 apiece, and made an adapter that holds them perfectly in my gondola. They work well if you want a thin line like a ballpoint. Unfortunately, they don't last nearly as long as a ballpoint.
http://www.officemax.com/office-supplies/pens-pencils-markers/pens/pen-refills/product-ARS21514

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